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Up 'N Under

Author File Description
ibobs
File Details
Ruleset: AoW: SM - Unofficial Patch 1.4
Map Size: S
Levels: 2
Single Player?: No
Co-Op vs. AI?: No
PBEM/Hotseat?: Yes
Multiplayer Online?: Yes
# of Wizards: 2
# of players: 2
Skill Level: Novice
Password Protected: No
Up 'n Under
The dwarf lands stand apart, divided and otherwise split. Male dwarf and female dwarf no longer see eye to eye - as if this is unusual between men and women??

Anyway, ever since the "Great Disagreement" of the year 424, no "personnal" contact has been made between the two sides. Mrs Dwarf is still upset at the request Mr Dwarf made and Mr Dwarf does not see the problem in what he asked. It is a great stand off that has now lasted 20 long years... Dwarf women can be as stubborn as their male counter-parts!

Oh - The disagreement you ask?? Ah well, that is between Mr and Mrs Dwarf, but suffice to say - Mr Dwarf designed an object of female clothing that he claimed to enhance and define the female form, where as Mrs Dwarf took offense at the fact Mr Dwarf described the process as "It just goes Up 'n Under, love, Up 'n Under..."
AuthorComments & Reviews   ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )
Timelord This is a good map with a dynamic approach system - dynamic in the sense that players aren't herded in any one direction. All approaches are also equally feasible - they aren't tacked on just for having different routes. Rock/Paper/Scissors is a fun way to start the map but the units given as rewards can be tweaked - resurging magma elem, hatchlings, tunnelers can be powerful on this map.
The starting spells definitely needs looking into - haste is extremely overpowered compared to blinding flash. The area guards guarding the cities should also be changed to guards -> otherwise, they can be exploited to gain the town for free. Random towns can also be an issue especially in competitive play - not a big one but the possibility is there due to some starting with War Hall (races with good lvl2 units can help a lot)

In my comments, I did note that the request id 2 was missing but I checked again today and I realize that was a mistake. Sorry. That would have bumped the Balance score to 3.7.

Overall score I would give based on the competition submission: 3.75 [3.7 for Playability, 3.4 for Balance, 4 for atmosphere]

[Edited on 05/03/10 @ 12:19 PM]

ibobs
File Author
Thanks Timelord. I was checking for incorrect events, not for the re-vote! :) But thanks!

The feedback is good and yes, the creatures could be changed a litte, but I wanted to add some spice into the game rather than just having some bland assualt troops added into it. I was thinking that each one can fight in different ways for the others. For example, the top level phoenix vs great wyrm vs basilisk. Phoenix (scissors) burns wyrm (paper), wyrm swallows basilisk (paper wraps stone) and basilisk stuns phoenix (rock blunts scissors)....

Also the random cities are placed at equal distances from each start point so the impact of randomness becomes a gamble. Yes, it can swing the game, but it can also lose you a lot of time.

And the area guards on the tower city is also deliberate as I wanted them to be exploited and the city taken easily. The map is meant to play quickly and this speeds it up.

And I didnt consider haste to be over powered - just my thought. You have to cast it and use it and the map has limited mana, so didnt see much impact. But, this is just my view so yes, you are probably right it could be changed. Maybe with the James Ede editor I can just add haste to the wizard...

Cheers for the feedback - I would still love to hear from the other judges.

[Edited on 05/04/10 @ 02:40 AM]

swolte
Staff
PLAYABILITY
Overall, I feel this map is really well done. The ideas behind it are really interesting (for example, the underground villages put against each other!). I also feel that this map can be finished quite early as well, which is good for tournament purposes.

If we're being perfectionists, I'll have some thoughts:
;)
So I do fear that there may be too much influence of randomness in this map affecting balance, especially regarding the summoning rewards.
For example, in my testgame, Mr. received two wild boars and one Dire boar whereas Mrs. had a Dragon hatching, Magma Elemental, and a Phoenix!! (is this even supposed to be possible?) This difference is a potential game-killer and should never happen in a tournament game where the stakes are high. I don't mind randomness, but then there should be either less differences possible in the outcomes, or there should be a lot more of this type of high-level randomness (so it will average out).

Choosing Scissors also seems to be quite a bit more powerful than the others, so this probably need some tweaking. I think TL was hinting at this as well.

In terms of strategic design, I think the entire NW corner isn't really worth attending to. The underground SE corner as well. Most of the game-deciding action, I feel, will be on the surface where the action should be (or, in other words, if you don't put your actions there, you will probably lose...).

In that vein, I may disagree somewhat with Timelord about one point: I think there are not that many 'early' viable options to expand. Most of the 'punch' is provided on the surface. It is crucial these tower-cities are taken soon and to expand rapidly from there. It is either steaming (Ballooning) over the mountains or capturing the SE cities and recruit sites.

I would probably suggest some more tweaks in the landscape, and make certain underground areas more viable options as well. Could make the map even more interesting.

Don't get me wrong, although I give a lot of criticism here, the map already has a very strong design!

BALANCE
This is still tricky to say. I could not find any obvious issues, though. The balancing seems well done, especially for an asymmetrical map like this!

Leaning slightly towards Mrs. Seems like she has a better 'path' (with target recruit sites nicely lined up) to walk towards the two random cities. Also, she seems closer to walk/balloon to the recruit site with the Knights. And she also has an option to use harbour/water in an offensive manner.

In sum, though, very well done!!

ATMOSPHERE
Impressively original/fun story and setting which should lead to some interesting logs (awkward even, perhaps...).
:p
The rock-scissors-paper events could be better introduced, I think. I had no idea who the 'god' was that grants me help and why. It is a bit strange. And also why would they think I am doing weak, and such.

But, that is a minor issue.

----------

Don't get me wrong. Overall, impressive work in all respects!!
:D

[Edited on 05/10/10 @ 09:41 AM]

ibobs
File Author
Thanks Swolte, I dont get you wrong at all. I agree with everything you said. Some of the points are deliberate, but some could easily be tweaked if you wish.

For example, the paths that are available are deliberately a little harder down the edges, but do have some extra rewards. The items in the corners are very good for example. This was done to push the game down the middle channels and thus creates a faster tournament style map. If you open up the corners more then the game will probably take longer. The charge down the middle being most obvious.

Probably the biggest thing to need changing will be the random spawns for each side. I do agree that scissors seems more powerful, and I would probably change the hatchling and the magma elemental for that reason. All the L4 troops you can get are powerful, so that is deliberate. I have also played this many times and the number of spawns is such that they do not make that great a difference over the course of the game. I have seen some unbalance, but when the spawn happens at the back, then it takes a long time to get to the front lines. If a L4 troop comes to the winning side, then it will not see much action. If it comes to the losing side, then it may swing the defense of the capital, but on its own, maybe not.

However, for a tournament, I could easily agreee with taking out the higher level troops and maybe adding a different L3 one instead.

Also, the introduction of the game in the first place I did feel was quite weak, but didnt have the time or any bright idea on how to change it.

All in all I agree with all the points, but it is very good to hear that there was nothing that I missed that is a huge huge problem for what the map was written for.

The only other point that the Groll mentioned that is a good point to probably have changed is the random cities in the corners. I would still have them as random, but since everyone seems to hate the saint inbalance, then I would simply remove the archon race from the map to avoid any archon troops being used in the first place.

Cheers for the time taken for posting.
rat_peddler Just wanted to let you know I played this from both sides as single player. It was entertaining. It seemed pretty even given I knew more the second time around.
ibobs
File Author
Thanks RP. :)
Roger the Rampant This is a great map. Very, very funny but also good fun to play. I wouldn't usually play 1vs1 or UPatch 1.4 maps, but I am helping to test the maps for an upcoming tournament, and this map is far and away the most fun of the 4 maps that I have tried so far. Not necessarily the prettiest, but to me a great map is more about having fun than being pretty.
ibobs
File Author
Thanks Roger! That makes my (birth)day! :)
oleg123
Rating
4.8
Breakdown
Playability5.0
Balance5.0
Creativity5.0
Map Design4.0
Story/Instructions5.0
Playability: 5
Balance: 5
Creativity: 5
Map Design: 4
Story/Instructions: 5

Additional Comments:
Asymetric design and story deserve bonus points. It is a case of "tourney" - high speed, medium-low randomness - map in which meeting the requirements does not come with a taste of artificial changes. A great replayability value for a small map.

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HGDL v0.7.1

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Rating
4.8
Breakdown
Playability5.0
Balance5.0
Creativity5.0
Map Design4.0
Story/Instructions5.0
Statistics
Downloads:530
Favorites: [Who?]0
Size:97.64 KB
Added:04/16/10
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